The Carbon Credit Dilemma with Kees van Santen, co-founder of Cawa
In this captivating fireside conversation, host Arjé Cahn sits down with Kees van Santen, founder of Cawa, to explore the complex world of voluntary carbon credits and the quest for genuine climate impact. Against the backdrop of a crackling campfire in the Dutch forest, they dive deep into the challenges and opportunities in the carbon credit market.
Key Discussion Points:
- The real mathematics behind carbon sequestration
- The critical difference between carbon removal and avoidance credits
- The current state of the voluntary carbon market and its transparency issues
- How intermediaries can take up to 80-85% of carbon credit value, leaving little for actual climate projects
- Cawa's mission to bring transparency and efficiency to carbon credit transactions
- The growing importance of ESG reporting and the EU's Green Claims Directive
- The challenge of greenwashing and how regulatory frameworks are evolving
- The founder's "oh shit moment" when confronted with the reality of carbon credit trading
Location: Recorded in a forest setting in The Netherlands
Chapters
👤 Follow Kees van Santen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kees-van-santen-606a22b2/
🌿 Learn more about Cawa: https://www.cawa.tech/
🔍 EU Green Claims Directive: https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/circular-economy/green-claims_en
🌳 Gold Standard for Carbon Credits: https://www.goldstandard.org/
✅ Verra Carbon Standard: https://verra.org/
Chapters
- (00:00) - Introduction and context
- (03:41) - Understanding Carbon Credits Basics
- (05:45) - Types of Carbon Credits
- (12:12) - The Additionality Problem
- (17:31) - Common Misconceptions
- (24:16) - Real World Impact Example
- (28:13) - The Founder's Journey
- (34:08) - The Origin Story
- (40:12) - Technical Solution
- (46:18) - Future Vision
- (50:21) - The Middleman Problem
- (01:04:11) - Regulatory Landscape
- (01:08:48) - Founder Challenges
- (01:13:52) - Closing Thoughts
👤 Follow Kees van Santen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kees-van-santen-606a22b2/
🌿 Learn more about Cawa: https://www.cawa.tech/
🔍 EU Green Claims Directive: https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/circular-economy/green-claims_en
🌳 Gold Standard for Carbon Credits: https://www.goldstandard.org/
✅ Verra Carbon Standard: https://verra.org/
- EU ETS (Emissions Trading System): https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/eu-emissions-trading-system-eu-ets_en
- CSRD (Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive): https://finance.ec.europa.eu/capital-markets-union-and-financial-markets/company-reporting-and-auditing/company-reporting/corporate-sustainability-reporting_en
Note: This episode was recorded in late 2024. Regulations and market conditions discussed may have evolved since recording.
Production credits and thanks yous:
Music by Allerd van den Bremen
Production by Peter van Dijk, podcastvoorbedrijven.nl
Disclosure: Through Shamrock Ventures, the host has invested in some of the companies featured on this podcast, including Cawa.
Production credits and thanks yous:
Music by Allerd van den Bremen
Production by Peter van Dijk, podcastvoorbedrijven.nl
Disclosure: Through Shamrock Ventures, the host has invested in some of the companies featured on this podcast, including Cawa.
Creators and Guests
Host
Arje Cahn
Former Silicon Valley unicorn CPO turned Dutch forest ranger, Arjé Cahn hosts candid conversations with tech founders about building solutions for people and planet. From his 15-hectare woodland in the Netherlands, he challenges guests to think deeply about tech's role in creating a sustainable future – all while sitting around a real campfire. 🌲🔥
Composer
Allerd van den Bremen
Allerd van den Bremen is a Dutch composer, musician, and music educator known for his involvement in creating innovative and intimate musical theater performances. He collaborates frequently with the theater writer Renée van Marissing in a project called Rode Rozen (Red Roses). Together, they craft performances that combine music and text, often inspired by visual art or literature, such as James Baldwin’s Another Country. Some of their work has been showcased in venues like the Van Gogh Museum . In addition to composing, van den Bremen works as a music teacher and a community musician, particularly engaging with elderly populations, including those with dementia. He also explores electronic music as a solo artist and in collaboration with others.
